Can I remark again how absolutely infuriating I find it, that the surgeons’ lounge here is inside of the men’s locker room? Infuriating, and humiliating by how completely everyone overlooks the fact. This is why you -me, actually; the guys don’t have this problem – can never find most of the attendings, or senior residents, between cases: but the two women attendings, and the female residents, will always be found standing by the OR desk (or wandering the ICUs), because we have nowhere else particular to go.
(And please, now is not the time to discuss my theoretical inconsistencies. I might throw something. . .)
Cut On The Dotted Line 
October 6, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Doesn’t that violate some sort of discrimination law? Or sexual harrassment? That’s just insane!
October 6, 2008 at 1:37 pm
That’s how the old hospitals were built. The newer ones often have a common area for nurses and doctors to use. And yes, it can be irritating, Dr Alice. But if it says Doctors Lounge, maybe you should just go on in and let them squirm. 🙂
October 6, 2008 at 5:17 pm
You’re not missing anything Alice, smells like Beer Farts and old sweat socks.
October 6, 2008 at 7:17 pm
lol, Kelley, if I were going to take up every opportunity to say “sexual harassment,” I would never have gotten through third year of medical school, let alone into surgery. We can’t change the guys, we just have to deal with them, and be firmly deaf when necessary.
Frank – In the middle of the night, I have gone in, just to see, and you’re right, it’s no great shakes. Calling sour grapes makes it easier to ignore. 🙂
rlbates – Maybe; I’m not that bold in person.
October 7, 2008 at 9:09 am
It’s a fact I’m slowly learning at the beginning of my long journey to surgery. Perhaps it’s because we work with so many surgeons that have always treated me like a colleague (we own an orthopedic sales business), but I think I’ve been a little naieve as to what I’m up against as a woman, and a mother, pursuing surgery.
I attended a seminar recently, at my university, presented by the president of a local surgical group and hospital, and after I asked a question about the 80 hour work week, and the rumors about shortening it even further, he ignored my question, and rather pointedly informed me that the REAL problem with surgery today is that 50% of surgery residents are female, and women don’t want to work 24 hour shifts, are too concerned with their family, and drop out as soon as they have kids. With each question I asked, his disdain for female surgeons became more apparent. I was absolutely DUMBFOUNDED by his lack of professionalism, and his overt sexism.
But, I suppose that’s just the first in a long line of hurdles for me to tackle on this journey. I hope to adopt an attitude, and dare I say a reputation, similar to yours.
October 7, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Woah, Kelly, never never ask about the 80hr week if you want the surgeon to talk to you seriously, write you a letter of recommendation, or give you an interview, let alone rank you at his program. No matter what you mean by it, for a woman to ask that question (and indeed for most guys, who are regarded as soft too by the old guard) signals only that you’re interested in doing as little work as possible, and are not committed to surgery. Seriously, that’s the third wire of surgical residency these days.
For the rest, I’ve been hurt a couple of times too when attendings I thought I knew, and who I thought were ok with the women residents, started talking frankly about the changes in surgery, and it became clear that no matter how self-controlled and polite they are most of the time, in reality they distrust us as much as ever.
On the other hand, I was stunned by a remark from one of the guys today, to the effect that he realizes it must be incredibly hard to be a woman in surgery, and that he respects the women in the program. I realized then that his habit of spending time chatting in a collegial fashion with the women is not an accident; he’s actually going out of his way to encourage us. (His wife is a doctor, but not a surgeon.)
October 8, 2008 at 12:09 am
Actually, I asked him if he thought the 80 hour work week had created a deficit in the caliber of surgeons coming out of residencies, and if he thought that with rumors of a 57 hour week, residencies would have to be lengthened in the near future to compensate for this. I was in NO WAY championing the 80 hour work week OR the 57 hour one. I’ve read, and talked to enough surgeons to know this is not looked upon as a bastion of proper education.
In the end, he pointedly ignored all references to the 80 hour work week, and instead blamed all of surgeries problems on the female residents coming out of the program, rather pointedly, in fact.
And good for your colleague, spending time with the female surgeons, and (gasp) treating them like colleagues. If only that were more prevalent in your world…Perhaps he can help champion your cause (the locker room), or at least sneak you out some really good snacks!